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	<title>Comments on: 1421 completely debunked?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/2005/10/24/1421-completely-debunked/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/2005/10/24/1421-completely-debunked/</link>
	<description>candour is good</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 12:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Kenneth</title>
		<link>http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/2005/10/24/1421-completely-debunked/#comment-27708</link>
		<dc:creator>Kenneth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Apr 2006 00:46:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/?p=941#comment-27708</guid>
		<description>Menzies' is a charlatan. I worked on some of the archaeological sites in NZ he spins yarns about, and he made up a lot of details (all actually), included bizzare factual mistakes and from this built a fantasy version.
Since I know he is deluded it follows the rest is just as dubious.
The NZ material I posted here;
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10888

I have posted rebuttal of the global fantasies on a website taken from numerous reviews;
http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10942&#38;st=0
I also checked into his irresponsible methods with other 'evidence' and found those that check his 'facts' worldwide find the same things.
This website includes many issues of evidence, and manipulation. I include and abridged version of an excellent article on the above link. Full version at:http://www.dightonrock.com/gavinsfantalyland.htm

If you read one link that explodes Menzies' today then make it this dighton rock one!
If you read this then any doubts about Menzies' distortions will vanish. It is thoroughy referenced and is easy to check Gavins own sources. ;)

If you read through it then almost everything Menzies' said is exploded as fiction and fabrication.
His 'carved stones' are typically bronze age, not Ming...his ship wrecks are often identified as historical &#38; carbon dated after 1421...but he just leaves such things out despite knowing it from his own sources!. Pure manipulation.

I weep for history. 
Menzies is not an underdog being picked on by academics. I dont think he is being treated unfairly.
His 1421 work is a disgrace. He is simply a sham historian. His book either demonstrates the authors very poor grasp of reality or else a brilliant insight into how to sell beyond 20 editions in 5 short years.
The phrase is 'laughing all the way to the bank'.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Menzies&#8217; is a charlatan. I worked on some of the archaeological sites in NZ he spins yarns about, and he made up a lot of details (all actually), included bizzare factual mistakes and from this built a fantasy version.<br />
Since I know he is deluded it follows the rest is just as dubious.<br />
The NZ material I posted here;<br />
<a href="http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10888" rel="nofollow">http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10888</a></p>
<p>I have posted rebuttal of the global fantasies on a website taken from numerous reviews;<br />
<a href="http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10942&amp;st=0" rel="nofollow">http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?showtopic=10942&amp;st=0</a><br />
I also checked into his irresponsible methods with other &#8216;evidence&#8217; and found those that check his &#8216;facts&#8217; worldwide find the same things.<br />
This website includes many issues of evidence, and manipulation. I include and abridged version of an excellent article on the above link. Full version at:http://www.dightonrock.com/gavinsfantalyland.htm</p>
<p>If you read one link that explodes Menzies&#8217; today then make it this dighton rock one!<br />
If you read this then any doubts about Menzies&#8217; distortions will vanish. It is thoroughy referenced and is easy to check Gavins own sources. ;)</p>
<p>If you read through it then almost everything Menzies&#8217; said is exploded as fiction and fabrication.<br />
His &#8216;carved stones&#8217; are typically bronze age, not Ming&#8230;his ship wrecks are often identified as historical &amp; carbon dated after 1421&#8230;but he just leaves such things out despite knowing it from his own sources!. Pure manipulation.</p>
<p>I weep for history.<br />
Menzies is not an underdog being picked on by academics. I dont think he is being treated unfairly.<br />
His 1421 work is a disgrace. He is simply a sham historian. His book either demonstrates the authors very poor grasp of reality or else a brilliant insight into how to sell beyond 20 editions in 5 short years.<br />
The phrase is &#8216;laughing all the way to the bank&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/2005/10/24/1421-completely-debunked/#comment-24262</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Nov 2005 09:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/?p=941#comment-24262</guid>
		<description>I was dumbfounded to read those who tried to debunk Gavin Menzies to an extreme by digging into the court case of him and posted on the net anonymously.

On September 5, an article of Zheng He Research and Activities Brief was written and posted by Au Cheng-liang, an amateur history researcher from Tainan (quote - interpretation corrected by a lawyer called Jiang Shin-Shian - unquote).  The article was titled, "Another Side of Menzies -
Straddled by Court Cases and Debts", it started off by putting in the details of Gavin's court case, named his wife Marcella, and ended by saying his book was based on assumptions and not true.

I can't believe these academics and scholars!!!

These people are hired by high education and research authorities, they must know they cannot go into a smear campaign and ruin other's reputation simply because others have presented a different theory.

How am I going to trust putting my kids to these institutions that have low form of lives to teach our children!!!  How can I trust the research presented by these institutions suspecting that the truth might have been shut out from a bunch of cronies who had no open mind!!!

I hope the National University of Singapore, Taiwan Oceanographic University will examine   why these people are allowed to do these under the name of their distinguished organizations, and whether these people had any similar smear campaigns to anyone they disagreed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was dumbfounded to read those who tried to debunk Gavin Menzies to an extreme by digging into the court case of him and posted on the net anonymously.</p>
<p>On September 5, an article of Zheng He Research and Activities Brief was written and posted by Au Cheng-liang, an amateur history researcher from Tainan (quote - interpretation corrected by a lawyer called Jiang Shin-Shian - unquote).  The article was titled, &#8220;Another Side of Menzies -<br />
Straddled by Court Cases and Debts&#8221;, it started off by putting in the details of Gavin&#8217;s court case, named his wife Marcella, and ended by saying his book was based on assumptions and not true.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t believe these academics and scholars!!!</p>
<p>These people are hired by high education and research authorities, they must know they cannot go into a smear campaign and ruin other&#8217;s reputation simply because others have presented a different theory.</p>
<p>How am I going to trust putting my kids to these institutions that have low form of lives to teach our children!!!  How can I trust the research presented by these institutions suspecting that the truth might have been shut out from a bunch of cronies who had no open mind!!!</p>
<p>I hope the National University of Singapore, Taiwan Oceanographic University will examine   why these people are allowed to do these under the name of their distinguished organizations, and whether these people had any similar smear campaigns to anyone they disagreed.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/2005/10/24/1421-completely-debunked/#comment-24205</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2005 04:58:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/?p=941#comment-24205</guid>
		<description>I do agree that academics should refrain from making personal attacks on those with whom they disagree. I hear that the discussion is getting quite heated, with Wade attempting to sue the publishers for misrepresenting 1421 as a non-fiction title. I have also heard that there is a claim that the publishers edited 1421, against Menzies' wishes, to increase its chances of becoming a bestseller. I would be more than happy to find out what Menzies thinks of all this.

Again, I'm not ruling anything out, since history is such that we won't know for sure what happened because everyone who was there is long dead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do agree that academics should refrain from making personal attacks on those with whom they disagree. I hear that the discussion is getting quite heated, with Wade attempting to sue the publishers for misrepresenting 1421 as a non-fiction title. I have also heard that there is a claim that the publishers edited 1421, against Menzies&#8217; wishes, to increase its chances of becoming a bestseller. I would be more than happy to find out what Menzies thinks of all this.</p>
<p>Again, I&#8217;m not ruling anything out, since history is such that we won&#8217;t know for sure what happened because everyone who was there is long dead.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee Frank</title>
		<link>http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/2005/10/24/1421-completely-debunked/#comment-24204</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Nov 2005 04:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/?p=941#comment-24204</guid>
		<description>Wade, Rivers and a Professor Su from Taiwan are buddies trying to "debunk" certain theories they disagreed.

As college professors and researchers in a famous educational and research institution, they should not do any personal attacks or writing open or anonymous letters to the Singapore press, Singapore Tourism Board and even the U.S. Library of Congress to "debunk" Mr. Menzies for presenting his case.

With no respect of Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Faith, and disregard of other people using an open platform to voice what he finds, I think it's a disgrace to the educational and research institutions which hired Wade and Su, these two institutions should remind the two folks what freedom of expression are all about.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wade, Rivers and a Professor Su from Taiwan are buddies trying to &#8220;debunk&#8221; certain theories they disagreed.</p>
<p>As college professors and researchers in a famous educational and research institution, they should not do any personal attacks or writing open or anonymous letters to the Singapore press, Singapore Tourism Board and even the U.S. Library of Congress to &#8220;debunk&#8221; Mr. Menzies for presenting his case.</p>
<p>With no respect of Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Faith, and disregard of other people using an open platform to voice what he finds, I think it&#8217;s a disgrace to the educational and research institutions which hired Wade and Su, these two institutions should remind the two folks what freedom of expression are all about.</p>
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		<title>By: serialdeviant.org(y) &#187; Bill Hartz on 1421</title>
		<link>http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/2005/10/24/1421-completely-debunked/#comment-24159</link>
		<dc:creator>serialdeviant.org(y) &#187; Bill Hartz on 1421</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 02:55:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/?p=941#comment-24159</guid>
		<description>[...] Pursuant to a comment made on my earlier post, 1421 completely debunked?, I encourage people to read the essay linked there. It is a referenced look at some of Gavin Menzies&#8217; claims, and is very interesting. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Pursuant to a comment made on my earlier post, 1421 completely debunked?, I encourage people to read the essay linked there. It is a referenced look at some of Gavin Menzies&#8217; claims, and is very interesting. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/2005/10/24/1421-completely-debunked/#comment-24158</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Nov 2005 02:36:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/?p=941#comment-24158</guid>
		<description>If that really was Geoff Wade, even if it wasn't, thanks for taking the time to post the link to the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If that really was Geoff Wade, even if it wasn&#8217;t, thanks for taking the time to post the link to the article.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Wade</title>
		<link>http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/2005/10/24/1421-completely-debunked/#comment-24157</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Wade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Nov 2005 15:31:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/?p=941#comment-24157</guid>
		<description>Dear all,

Referenced and footnote rebuttal of mMnzies by Bill Hartz available at:

http://thehallofmaat.com/modules.php?name=Articles&#38;file=article&#38;sid=91

The DNA evidence all says that North Americans populations are related to Asian populations and that there has been "recent" (within last 10,000 years)inflow of genes across the bering Straits area. Nothing new and nothing to support menzies claims

See also book by Phil Rivers: "1421: fact and fantasy"

Wade is neither bitter nor intolerant. Like most historians, he finds new theories exciting. But when people fabricate evidence in order to deceive people in their quest for a buck, he like most historians gets pretty disgusted.

Best wishes,

geoff wade</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dear all,</p>
<p>Referenced and footnote rebuttal of mMnzies by Bill Hartz available at:</p>
<p><a href="http://thehallofmaat.com/modules.php?name=Articles&amp;file=article&amp;sid=91" rel="nofollow">http://thehallofmaat.com/modules.php?name=Articles&amp;file=article&amp;sid=91</a></p>
<p>The DNA evidence all says that North Americans populations are related to Asian populations and that there has been &#8220;recent&#8221; (within last 10,000 years)inflow of genes across the bering Straits area. Nothing new and nothing to support menzies claims</p>
<p>See also book by Phil Rivers: &#8220;1421: fact and fantasy&#8221;</p>
<p>Wade is neither bitter nor intolerant. Like most historians, he finds new theories exciting. But when people fabricate evidence in order to deceive people in their quest for a buck, he like most historians gets pretty disgusted.</p>
<p>Best wishes,</p>
<p>geoff wade</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea</title>
		<link>http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/2005/10/24/1421-completely-debunked/#comment-24114</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Oct 2005 01:18:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/?p=941#comment-24114</guid>
		<description>I actually met up with a friend last night who knows Wade. He said he would ask Wade if he has written any (footnoted and referenced) articles rebutting Menzies, and to try to get me a copy. He also said that a lot of people did not like Menzies' book, because the research was very poorly done, but as my friend had not read the book, he could not say one way or the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually met up with a friend last night who knows Wade. He said he would ask Wade if he has written any (footnoted and referenced) articles rebutting Menzies, and to try to get me a copy. He also said that a lot of people did not like Menzies&#8217; book, because the research was very poorly done, but as my friend had not read the book, he could not say one way or the other.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Maukka</title>
		<link>http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/2005/10/24/1421-completely-debunked/#comment-24110</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Maukka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Oct 2005 08:29:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.serialdeviant.org/weblog/?p=941#comment-24110</guid>
		<description>I,m also familiar with Wade's bitter and fierce arguments against Gavin Menzies. I have no idea who this Wade is  (or any evidence by myself whether Menzies has right or wrong) but I had exactly the same experience when I relatively late in my life came to the academic circles. People who have been scholars all their lives are unbelievable intolerant, even aggressive to hear something new that may not fit in their own beliefs.

The reason is that the scholars usually build up their whole career and academic existence on one single pillar, only building it higher and higher. This is why I understand very well hat they who seem to rock the foundation of this pillar are not welcomed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I,m also familiar with Wade&#8217;s bitter and fierce arguments against Gavin Menzies. I have no idea who this Wade is  (or any evidence by myself whether Menzies has right or wrong) but I had exactly the same experience when I relatively late in my life came to the academic circles. People who have been scholars all their lives are unbelievable intolerant, even aggressive to hear something new that may not fit in their own beliefs.</p>
<p>The reason is that the scholars usually build up their whole career and academic existence on one single pillar, only building it higher and higher. This is why I understand very well hat they who seem to rock the foundation of this pillar are not welcomed.</p>
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